After
writing the earlier comments on the All Saints’ Cathedral’s proposed Amendments
(see below) and in the light of recent decision at the High Courts, I would
like to make the following comments:-
The
implication of the non legal entity of House of bishop of the Anglican province
on churches in south east asia has great impacts (illegalities) on the ADOS
& ASC where bishop of sabah has an important role to play.
Is Bishop
of Sabah appointed by HoB of APSEA legal? If not legal and so are the ADOS and ASC. So why are we amending an illegal
constitution of ASC?
How can
we go to amend any item of a constitution where due notice must be given when
there is a error in ITEM 6, the 7 (what?) days, working days, weeks,
months? I call this the hand of God to
call off this EGM. Let this be an
exposure draft.
Also if 7
(what) days is considered appropriate, which I don’t agree as it is too short
and an honourable person can go outstation for a week or more. Also there is no provision to appoint or
elect a new treasurer. This can be
handled by the standing orders of PCC.
Also how
do anyone to sign off any cheque to be bounced off if there is no fund in the
bank account or any unusual expenses like bonus of say RM100,000 not provided
in the budget. no pcc or any committee
can approve that. the treasurer should
not have any reason not to sign any cheque when properly approved by pcc as a
normal expense item if the supporting facts and items/documents are available.
There are
no urgency for the EGM and the issues can be dealt with the AGM due in two
months time. First establish the
legality of APSEA, ADOS and ASC.
Joshua
Kong 6013-8394513 4th of February, 2013
Dear rev C fu,
I do not intend to defeat the Proposed Amendments as it is.
I
hope the EGM can be called off as it is still CNY. The Proposed
Amendments can be refined and then tabled at the AGM on 12th Of April,
which is not an Election year and save the church and members time and
effort/money for a possible futile exercise as it is.
There is not even a half way house to better days.
The Amendments as proposed would have to get the green light
from the Bishop and then table for the members to approved or otherwise
it can be ding dong. This is the first time ASC is doing this as far
as I can remember.
The last amendment were done in 1996 by the bishop alone.
Also
the existing ASC Constitution is technically an illegal one for the
notice of 14 days and not corrected to 21 days but the ASC admin used to
inform the members of the AGM well ahead of 21 days.
We need to do a better job than what had been done that cannot be undone.
If
we check the Anglican Irish Constitution (parent one), it is 153 pages
and how many pages are ours in ASC and ADOS? So to be comprehensive we
must have clauses to deal with all the possibilities and not let lop
holes to be obvious.
We don't want AVCF to point at the Treasurer and so "I told
you so and now rectified". If this is the standard constitution for all
churches in ADOS, then we can accept that. That is permanent damage
and we need to make it straight now.
The sack issue of any PCC members can be done in the Standing
Order. We are not a public NGO as such but we a body of Christ and so we
need to show the way.
It was indeed a very sad episode
on the case of ex-Teasurer who was doing her work very well and we will
see what is to come in AGM 2014. In the AGM 2013, there was a mighty
effort to remove the ex-Treasurer by all the below the belt measures. I
hope she (not him/he) will stand again in 2015. The latest amendment
unfortunately is to make her as a target unjustified.
God already defeated this Proposed Amendment on 8th February, 2014.
Thank you,
Joshua
Dear Rev Clarence,
So
the draft is the work of 5 persons as authorised by Dean Chak and no
green light from the Bishop yet. I think this is the first time this is
happening in ASC and ADOS.
I think drafting the amendment is one thing and should have gone
through an exposure draft for the congregation to comment to refine it.
I am sorry to say that it is not good enough to work to promote fairness,
justice and transparency plus practicality.
Why should ASC stands out to sack a honourable treasurer at this stage to
throw
a bad light on the previous treasurer to live her life resulting in
such an action? That is what AVCF wants to see and by having such a
clause, it is indeed a nightmare for Rosalind. The sacking of the
treasurer or any elected officials can be handled by the Standing Order
within the PCC. The ASC constitution even does not have a clause to
remove an elected PCC member for failure to perform like absent from
three consecutive PCC meeting without any reason. Anyway God has His
hand in this amendment.
Any amendment must also ensue that only genuine Malaysians are in the electoral roll.
Why does this amendment needs to go through the Synod? I thought in the
past
it is the Bishop who decided everything. So if it needs to go through
the Synod, there must be a model constitution already and that is not
the case, I believe. ASC must be the model in ADOS.
BTW, is "his" in the amendment as repeated means only a man
can be a treasurer? I know the law can be funny like only male can be
priest in Anglican tradition of Sabah. Elsewhere we have women priests.
Synod is coming soon and we must curb the tenure of the Bishop
as acting Dean to maximum two years only otherwise ASC Constitution is
going to be abused and denied by a recalcitrant bishop with the
prerogative power.
Finally, would you permit to publish your reply in my blog?
Thank you for your prompt reply and God bless you.
Joshua
The above is a reply to Rev. C. Fu
<><><>
I wonder why this AGM 2014, there is no election of the PCC, why is it so urgent to hold EGM at additional cost and why not wait for two months on 12th April, 2014 when the AGM would be held and the Amendments can be held then ?
All Saints’ Cathedral
This is very
important constitutional Amendment
1. Since we started the change of the
Constitution since late 2011, it is only now we see something on the very
important Constitutional Amendment which is still very lacking in substance to
anything near the revamp of the ASC vis-Ã -vis ADOS.
2. Why is the notice of EGM for the
amendments not attached to the proposed amendments sheets?
3. Is the proposed amendment
originated from the Bishop or the Dean or members of ASC?
4. Since the Bishop has the
prerogative to approve such amendments even after the EGM which may approve all
the proposed amendments or some of the amendments. I wonder if the proposed amendments in such
sketchy stage would be finally approved in principle by the Bishop and how
quickly would that be done? Otherwise it
is a futile EGM.
5. Overall the proposed amendments are
inadequate to deal with the problems and crisis since 2011 in ASC vis-Ã -vis
ADOS as the fundamental causes are not really dealt with.
6. If I have a say – the whole
proposed amendment should go back to the drawing board as EGM and
Constitutional Amendments are not regular affairs for an expanding church like
ASC.
7. The main reason for the crisis
which I call BISHOPGATE is that we had a bishop cum dean who had violated the
existing Constitutions which were highlighted in the AGM of ASC in 2012 where
two major Constitution issues were put to the vote in two Resolutions.
8. Both these issues were not
addressed in this Proposed Amendments namely there is no curb in the term of
the bishop and dean holding both positions for an extended time and that the
power of the normal PCC was very much diluted by excessive nominees of the
bishop cum dean. A bishop cum dean can
be a recurrence anytime.
8.1
Instead of improving the performance of
PCC, it is another ‘laughing stock’ to belittle the elected Honorable Treasurer
who is expected to performance out of good heart and much sacrifice for holding
such non remunerated office. How can an
elected Treasurer be sacked for whatever reasons unless the person decides not
to continue to serve? I have been
pioneers of formation of NGOs and have to see first time that the elected or
appointed Treasurer can be sacked as stipulated in the Constitution. I think such clause or term is against public
interest and it is happening in ADOS.
Better still to go ahead with a civil suit if the Treasurer refuses to
sign any cheque. Then the question is ASC
would be without a Treasurer as sacked and how to get a replacement by appointment
or election? There is no provision in
the amended Constitution to deal with a PCC without a Treasurer. Why is there such a thing to move forward
with such a clause in ASC giving the impression all is not well with ADOS?
8.2 We must recognize and define what is the role
of PCC in a church environment ? Is it
about the play of numbers in PCC? If
that is the case it is already a ‘political’ maneuver in every move for every
act and decision in PCC. If that is the
case the quality of the performance in the PCC to manage the church is to be
questioned. I see in the elected lay
council members to the PCC, equal numbers from the three main sections while
the least section (Filipinos) would be ignored. Is this a healthy development? In the recent decades until AVCF comes in,
there was never such division of the members to be elected as we were more
interested to get committed, capable and matured members to serve in the
PCC. Such division mired by self
interest is designed to serve some people.
This system of equal numbers from the three divisions would mean more
sitting ducks. The amended Constitution
does not spell out how the elections would take place? Would the English division votes for their 4
members in PCC and likewise with Chinese and BM? If this is not the system, the results would
be awry as it was seen in the AGM 2013 where chaos reigned supreme as there was
menu from certain quarters later exposed by emails and this can destabilize the
church in its machinery as any divide and rule cannot go on for long in God’s
church.
8.3 Also on what basis are that the three
divisions have equal representations?
Why are we doing that as a church?
By all means, we must stop all manipulations from any quarter at any
AGM’s elections. After the elections,
most of those members from certain divisions disappeared and not interested in
the affairs of the church and is that what we want as all credibility would be
lost.
8.4
If the representation is based on the
confirmed members who are local and citizens, then if the English divisions has
4 members, the Chinese should only have 2 and possibly also 2 for the BM if all
the members in the Rolls are genuine Malaysians. Can ASC clean up the electoral rolls for the
BM division by checking their identity cards?
(NB: All Christians or otherwise can attend church
but to be in the Electoral Roll is a
separate matter)
8.5
If the representation is based on
financial contributions annually, the ratio as in paragraph 9.4 should be a
fair one.
- As there is no determination on the
voting system in the Constitution (old and amended) and if all the members
vote on one ballot paper as in AGM 2013, the winners for the English
division would get the low or least votes giving a very degrading
impression for the elected members in PCC hence their voice could be
weakened (also sort of demoralized) in PCC as the number of the winning
candidates . We always pray to God
for the election to get the right people into the PCC but any manipulation
would be counterproductive. Tell me
how would those least interested (traditionally) in the affairs of the ASC
can select any one from the English division to serve in PCC effectively
and efficiently? Please enlighten
me if this view of mine is to be challenged.
10. So far it is enough for me to deal with the
proposed Amendments and I strongly believe the Amendment should not be passed
individually or in total on 9th of February, 2014. We need to do much more to make ASC a vibrant
and a model church in ADOS and the Constitution should be in place to do that.
Joshua
Y. C. Kong
6013-8394513
